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| Was 2nd form Freeza initially over a million? | ||
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| Tweet Topic Started: Feb 10 2017, 05:09 PM (2,268 Views) | ||
| ahill1 | Feb 12 2017, 03:40 AM Post #31 | |
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I honestly don't see how. Could you explain to me? |
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| + Pyrus | Feb 12 2017, 03:58 AM Post #32 | |
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What's the point in saying he's overdone it if his power hasn't reached the one million mark yet? |
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| ahill1 | Feb 12 2017, 04:00 AM Post #33 | |
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What did he overdone? He said that right after transforming, right? | |
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| + Pyrus | Feb 12 2017, 04:02 AM Post #34 | |
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Yeah. He talks about his power being over 1,000,000 as if that's excessive, but if he wasn't yet there, how did he overdo it? |
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| freezamite | Feb 15 2017, 01:27 AM Post #35 | |
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Well, Freezer stated that he couldn't control well his power in that form (and it was true, in a certain sense) so it's possible that this influenced Vegeta's opinion on what he should be able to do.
Un-enraged Gohan was the one at 30k. Regarding Krillin, his big power up came from when the Great Namekian unlocked his dormant power, but he had no zenkays nor anything else. What Krilin had was amazing techniques like the kienzan (he almost killed Freezer with it) that allowed him to defeat much stronger opponents. Regarding Gohan, Vegeta already knew that his power could increase a lot when he enraged, so he was counting on that (I think he even mentions it).
But the reader already knew Freezer wasn't using all his strength, it's the first thing Freezer says after attacking in that form: "...Of course, that was nothing. Even saiyans could do that". What I mean is, we have two very similar situations. Freezer vs Nail and Freezer 2nd form vs the z-warriors. In both of those situations, Freezer brags about his power with no intention of using it all, and in both situations, if his intention is to presume of strength, speaking about suppressed powers makes no sense for him. I mean, against Nail he says:
Against the z-warriors, he says:
He isn't saying that he is using, at that moment, a power greater than one million. He says that he has more than one million units of power in the same sense he said he had 530k units of power against Nail. He was presuming about how powerful he was. To give a lower number would make sense if Freezer wanted to seem weaker to fool his opponents, but those weren't his intentions at all.
Well, that's what he did (with different words, of course). I mean, he said "Seems I really do have too much power for me to properly control myself" which means that he was clearly controlling himself to a certain degree (although in the context he says it, I think him stabbing Krillin was done on purpose and he said that to terrorise the z-warriors even more).
If Toriyama wanted to do that, he wouldn't have ruined the surprise with Vegeta's comment on the subject. I mean, even before we see Freezer enduring Gohan's attack like nothing Vegeta already anticipates the result (Freezer not having been that much affected by Gohan's attack) and he does it 1 page before Freezer is shown getting up after the attack.
It's not him being a robot, it's just him being coherent. If you want to brag about something you don't make it look worse than it really is. And besides Freezer stating in the very same sentence were he states his power being over 1 million "I don't know if I'll be able to control it", the next thing he says is "even a saiyan could do that" which clearly reinforces the idea of him not going all out. |
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| DEY DID DIS 2 ME | Feb 15 2017, 06:22 PM Post #36 | |
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MY FACE!
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It doesn't matter; just so long as Freeza's power difference from Form 1 is much greater than Vegeta expected. Freeza 1 (Max Power) = 530 000 Freeza 2 (Projected) = 530 000 * 1.25 = 662 500 Freeza 2 ≥ 530 000 * 1.25 * 1.25 = 828 125 |
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| + Kyouks | Feb 16 2017, 07:25 AM Post #37 | |
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This goes contrary to what Vegeta said though. He does but it was a separate statement. Even if it wasn't, it wouldn't apply to Krillin. You can have a power level of x but use an attack at x/2. Also, I doubt he was directly comparing his actual power level, because that'd make no sense whether he was 600k or 1m. The statements are different, I acknowledge that. But I find it pretty hard to read "my power is excessive, perhaps I've overdone it, btw my power is 1,000,000" and not think that he's talking about the here and now. Even if I agreed with your mindset on the differences between the Nail/Vegeta statements meaning anything, I would still prioritize the flow of these scenes on their own (which I've explained before). Like I said before, he also says nothing about not being serious in his true form until he actually gets a little serious. He also wouldn't be making himself appear weaker to fool anyone because he wasn't even using his full strength yet, but was still more than strong enough to handle non-enraged Gohan and co. I agree with the second part, which is why I don't think the scene really works as evidence for the first part. Like I said earlier, the statement would make sense even if Freeza was at full power. Vegeta anticipating the result is different from Freeza revealing he has more power in store (which surprised Vegeta) and functions as a surprise on its own. Both were surprises to the reader and Gohan/Krillin, the latter was a surprise for all involved. Not mentioning his full power doesn't make him incoherent though. He's not making himself look worse, it's just a different way of making something look impressive. You could brag about it outright--"I'm this strong, but I don't even need to go all out"--or you could make a show of it--"Here's how ridiculous my power is. Bet you won't believe it if I told you there's more." They are trying to replace you. Be wary. |
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| DEY DID DIS 2 ME | Feb 17 2017, 07:21 AM Post #38 | |
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MY FACE!
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Help me, Kooks. I'm disappearing. I'm disappearing... |
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| freezamite | Feb 18 2017, 01:38 PM Post #39 | |
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Yeah, thinking about it, my 30K Gohan came because he couldn't follow Goku's movements when he fought Reecoome even after the zenkay power, but at that point he couldn't possibly be aware of how strong he had become (like Vegeta) so him being stronger than that is very possible.
Yes, you can, but if according to you Toriyama wanted to make Freezer look as if him was going at maximum strength, that would clearly go against that purpose, don't you think?
Remember that Freezer only transformed because Vegeta told him to do so. When he fought Vegeta at his weakest form it was obvious that Freezer had much more power in reserve than Vegeta (Vegeta is already panting while Freezer is not tired at all), he didn't transform for necessity like when he goes from his 3rd to his 2nd form against Piccolo, so that would totally justify his "perhaps I've overdone it". He could've won against those three (Gohan's rage boosts a part, but Freezer didn't know this) without transforming, but he still transformed. Furthermore, you have to think on the purpose of that sentence. Why would Freezer give his suppressed number if he wanted to show them how terrible he was? That's as if I won the lottery, wanted to brag about how much I won, and I tell my friends I've won much less than I had won in reality. It defeats the purpose of what I'm trying to do, don't you think?
Him stating that even a saiyan could do that or his statement about him having problems to control his power all demonstrate that he wasn't being serious. Yes, you can say "he wasn't speaking of his power but of his attacks", but he still wouldn't be serious if he was attacking with a fraction of his strength. So him acting as if he was serious in one vignette and doing the opposite in the next one doesn't make much sense.
Well, if you analyse it from a character's perspective (instead of Toriyama does whatever he wants to do at any point and for any reason) Freezer wanted to brag about his power, so it makes sense. Him stating his highest power (in that form), among him saying "hey I'm so strong I can't even control myself" all follow the same purpose: stating how incredibly strong he was. On the other hand, him speaking of a suppressed power to supposedly fool the z-warriors into making them believe he is weaker than he really is, and then brag about how hard it is for him to control his power it's contradictory, don't you think?
Even if that was the case, the reader doesn't know how it feels to have 1 million power of energy, so him going from 800k to 900k or from 1m to 1,1m it's the same in that sense.
He is if he doesn't increase his power afterwards, which is obvious he didn't have any intention to do. It's not like he had any intention to do that until Gohan kicked his a*** after getting angry. |
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